Entangled Health with Thomas Ehmer | Quantum Biology, Consciousness & the Future of Medicine

Welcome to the virtual edition
of Entangled Health.

Everyone defines health
differently.

Nothing exists in isolation and
body, mind, environment.

Everything is interconnected,
everything is entangled.

My guests at Entangled Health
come from all walks of life.

Quantum physics, AI, biotech,
healing arts, and creative

fields.
Each brings a unique perspective

where technology meets
philosophy and together we

expand our horizons.
We are launching the virtual

series and this is an experiment
and you can participate.

Usually my guests are alive when
I speak with them, but some

vital insights come from voices
that are no longer with us.

So instead of artificially
resurrecting these voices or

faking them, I choose to enter
directly into the dialogue with

their texts.
And I do this on Sub Stack.

There you can read the full
virtual conversation with my

first virtual guests on Skilled
Gardener and you find the link

in the comment.
So a podcast with a tit without

a fake voice?
That sounds tricky.

So what do we have here?
No fake voices of the virtual

guests themselves.
Instead, an AI generated podcast

featuring virtual voices about
the interview, analyzing and

contextualizing the content from
the written conversation for

you.
Let me know what you think and

let's go.
Welcome to the deep dive.

If you're here, you know the
drill.

We dive into complex sources so
you don't have to, and we pull

out the insights you can
actually use.

Today we're doing something a
little different, something that

sits right at the intersection
of, well, philosophy, health,

and some very modern technology.
We're focusing on the work of

the German philosopher Hans
Gorgatimer, a huge figure in the

20th century and.
Specifically, we're looking at

his ideas on understanding on
health and really what it means

to be human in a world that's
changing.

So so.
Fast now.

The source material for this is
what makes it so interesting.

It's not a dry academic paper.
We're working from a written

virtual interview.
Right from the Entangled Health

series.
And what the author did was

create a dialogue with
Gettemer's actual texts.

You know his major works like
Truth and Method and The Enigma

of Health.
And they were so transparent

about this process, it's really
refreshing.

It is.
They made a very deliberate

choice, a really thoughtful one,
to not use any synthetic voices

or AI to generate Getimer's
answers.

Which I just loved.
I mean, it gets right to the

heart of what we're about to
talk about, doesn't it?

Dialogue.
Honesty.

Exactly.
The source says it was to stop

the reader from being seduced
into forgetting that something

is being constructed.
It keeps the whole encounter

honest.
So our mission today is to pull

out these core ideas,
hermeneutics, dialogue, this

concept of entanglement, and see
how they apply to, well,

everything.
Modern medicine, AI, our own

search for meaning.
It's all connected and the whole

thing kicks off with this
beautiful quote about

friendship.
He calls it a mirror of self

knowledge.
But it's the last part that

really hits.
The most beautiful and consoling

part, he says, is seeing what
could still apply to oneself.

The subjunctive that potential.
It's not about who you are, but

who you could become through
that encounter with another

person.
It's a beautiful starting point.

OK, let's unpack this for anyone
listening who might not have a

philosophy degree.
Let's talk about the big one.

Hermeneutics, right?
In simple terms, hermeneutics is

the art and science of
understanding of interpretation.

And we're doing it all the time,
right?

Constantly reading an e-mail,
trying to figure out what your

boss really means, looking at a
piece of art.

That's all hermeneutics.
Gaderer just took it and applied

it to, well, all of human
experience.

And his big controversial point,
especially for us today, was

that understanding is not a
matter of method.

Yes, and that is so
counterintuitive for us.

We're all about the five step
plan, the algorithm, the

checklist.
We think if we just follow the

steps, we'll get the right
answer.

And Gaderer says no, that's not
how deep understanding works.

It's not a mechanical process.
It's an active human engagement.

But wait a minute, in medicine
method is everything.

The scientific method, clinical
trials, you can't just throw

that out, can you?
Isn't that dangerous?

That's a perfect question.
He's not saying get rid of

method altogether, he's saying
it has limits.

Method can give you data, it can
give you a diagnosis, but it

can't give you meaning.
So the lab results are the

method.
Exactly.

But true healing that requires
the doctor to understand the

patient's whole story, their
life, their context, and that

part.
That is not a method.

Which brings us to its most
famous idea, the fusion of

horizons.
Horizon Rush.

Melzong.
It sounds so grand.

It is, but the concept is
actually quite intuitive.

Your horizon is basically
everything you can see from your

vantage point, your knowledge,
your culture, your history, and

your prejudgments.
He used the word prejudice in a

neutral way, didn't he?
Completely.

For him a prejudice is just a
pre understanding.

It's the starting point you need
to even begin to understand

anything.
You can't start from zero.

So they're like the tools I
bring to the conversation.

Precisely.
And the fusion happens when your

horizon meets someone else's.
You don't just adopt their view,

and they don't adopt yours.
In that space between you,

something new emerges.
So.

I have to be willing to be
changed by the conversation.

That's the absolute key, Gatimer
said.

We must be wanting to let
something be said.

It's a radical openness and you
can see how vital that is for a

doctor listening to a patient.
That idea of being open, of

being entangled with the other
person, leads us right to the

title of the source, Entangled
health.

What did he mean by that?
For him, entangled was this

perfect word to describe how we
exist in history.

He said history does not belong
to us, but rather we to it.

Ah, so we're not outside of it
looking in, we're woven into it.

Exactly.
And health is the same.

It's not some objective thing we
can control from a distance.

It's a process, an event that we
are living inside of.

It's always dynamic.
So health isn't a thing you

possess like a car, it's more
like a state of being in balance

with the world.
A dynamic balance.

He's the Greek word metreon.
It's not a static perfect

balance.
It's more like an inner sense of

appropriate, a constant
adjustment.

Health is the ability to
maintain that inner accord.

And there's a paradox here,
isn't there?

Something about health being
hidden.

Yes, that's one of his most
profound points.

Health, he says, hides itself in
its very functioning.

Meaning when you have it, you
don't notice it.

Think about it.
When you feel great, you're not

thinking about your lungs or
your heart rate.

You're just living, absorbed in
what you're doing.

You only become aware of your
health when it's gone.

It's a state of integration.
Perfect word, a state of

integration into life.
Let's pull on that thread of

entanglement.
In physics, you have quantum

entanglement, 2 particles linked
no matter the distance.

Can we apply that
metaphorically?

Does that kind of deep human
recognition create a sort of

psychosocial entanglement that
can actually affect healing?

The source argues very strongly.
Yes, Gatimir himself would be

cautious with the physics term,
but the principle is the same.

The act of truly seeing, of
recognizing another person,

that's a transformative act.
It changes reality.

So it's not a one way St. when a
doctor really listens, they're

not just gathering data, they're
Co creating a space where

healing can happen.
That's the mechanism.

The quality of the attention
itself becomes a therapeutic

agent, and modern science is
catching up to this.

You mean like neuroscience or
psycho neuroimmunology?

Exactly the study of how your
mind and your relationships

affect your immune system.
There's growing evidence that

deep mutual engagement can
literally modulate physiological

processes in the body.
So the take away for you

listening is you don't heal
alone.

Never, the source says.
This is why a good word, a deep

listening, or a look of trust
can sometimes shift the course

of an illness.
It awakens something latent in

the person.
OK, but if healing is so

dependent on this deep human
presence, where does that leave

all our technology, our
algorithms, our.

AI Gatimer was already grappling
with this.

He was deeply skeptical of any
promise of absolute certainty.

Since understanding isn't a
method, he knew that AI could be

a powerful calculator.
It can spot patterns.

We can for sure.
But it lacks the bodily

historical lived experience
required for genuine

understanding.
Which is the critical

distinction now with large
language models with LLMS?

The source asks that question
directly.

Can LLM ever achieve real
Gadamarian understanding?

And based on his work, the
answer has to be no.

They're amazing, don't get me
wrong, but they are statistical

echoes.
They rearrange human language

based on probability.
They mimic, meaning they don't

create it.
And the distinction lies in

risk, doesn't it?
And LLM can write a beautiful

paragraph about courage, but it
risks nothing by writing it.

That is the entire point.
It's detached from lived

experience.
It's never felt pain or fear or

hope.
It doesn't bear what he called

existential risk.
When a machine tells you

something, it's indifferent.
When a human tells you

something, they are implicated.
They have skin in the game.

So if we just chase efficiency
and data, we risk losing that

essential humanity.
So how do we innovate without,

well, without losing our souls?
Gatimir actually gives us a

really hopeful path, he says.
Tradition is not a burden but a

resource.
So don't throw everything out.

No.
You enter into a dialogue with

it.
You test your own assumptions,

your own prejudices.
The real danger is what he

called the tyranny of hidden
prejudices, where we become so

focused on what's measurable
that we forget to ask if it's

meaningful.
Let's bring this back to health.

We're all tracking our steps,
our sleep, quantifying

everything.
What did Gadimir see as the

biggest mistake we make in
thinking about health?

It's that very idea.
Treating health is simply the

absence of illness.
It's the clinical view.

The check boxes are all clear,
so you must be healthy.

But that's not the whole story.
Not even close.

For him, health is integration
into life, a state of an active

and rewarding participation in
everyday duties.

It's about functioning well in
your world.

It's that unspectacular miracle
again, being so absorbed in

living that you don't even think
about it.

Absolutely.
The disease is what we can

measure and pinpoint true
health.

This deep sense of inner accord,
it sort of defies objective

scientific methods of
measurement.

It's just living.
And yet, even with all this

uncertainty and mystery, he was
a huge advocate for hope.

He insisted on it.
He said people cannot live

without hope.
The goal isn't perfect

certainty.
The goal is to keep the dialogue

going.
I have to say I loved the little

personal story from the
interview.

It really brings all this high
level philosophy right down to

earth.
Comfort food question.

What's your go to comfort food
after a long day of quantum

thinking?
And his answer was perfect.

Very strong coffee.
But not just as fuel.

No, that's the key.
He described it as a ritual

pause, a moment to anchor his
abstract thoughts back into his

living, breathing body.
A reminder that thinking doesn't

happen in a vacuum.
It happens in a body, in a

place, in a time.
That's a beautiful thought.

And Speaking of questions, he
actually offered one back to the

project for us.
He did, and it feels like he

wrote it this morning.
He asked, in a world

increasingly shaped by rapid
technological change and

constant demands for certainty,
how can we cultivate the art of

genuinely living with
uncertainty, ambiguity and not

knowing?
That is the challenge, isn't it?

For all of.
Us it is.

And his answer is his whole
philosophy in a nutshell.

It's an act of courage.
It's sustaining that tension

between what you know and what
you don't.

It's being open to being changed
by the world.

It is the highest form of
responsiveness.

He had a final message in the
source, a kind of closing

statement.
He did, he said.

The real value of everything,
Health, Science, technology at

all, lies an encounter, and that
what is said in language

constitutes the common world in
which we live.

That's where it all happens, in
that shared world we build with

words.
So what does this all mean for

you?
Listening.

Navigating your life?
Your work.

I think it means we have to
consciously practice embracing,

not knowing, to see that
understanding isn't a final

destination, it's a process, and
that health isn't a possession

to be guarded, but a dynamic
accord we have to constantly

cultivate.
And you can apply this

everywhere.
That difficult conversation at

work?
That's an opportunity for a

fusion of horizons.
That new AI tool?

It's an invitation to a new kind
of dialogue, not a replacement

for your own messy human
understanding.

Exactly.
So we'll leave you with this

last thought from Gatimer.
He suggested that in healing,

the structure of play absorbs
the player into itself and thus

frees him from the burden of
taking the initiative.

So if that's true, what parts of
your own life, your health, your

work, your relationships are you
trying so hard to control that

you might benefit from simply
letting play?

People cannot live without hope.
And that was Entangled Health,

the virtual series.
Thank you very much for

listening to this experiment and
see you next time.

You can find the link to the
full article in the comments and

feel free to share your thoughts
there if you enjoyed it.

Don't forget to subscribe to the
channel so you don't miss a

thing.
Stay kind, stay curious, and

keep exploring with Entangled
Health.